Our voices

This section focuses on the lived experience of Gypsy/Traveller intersectionality through the stories and voices of Gypsy/Travellers in Scotland, specifically how intersectional identity relates to:

• Gender
• LGBTQI+ identity

While some names have been changed to protect the identity of individual Gypsy/Travellers, these voices provide a real-life insight into the inequalities and multiple marginalisation faced by Gypsy/Travellers.

Gender

Gypsy/Traveller women have long been advocates and public campaigners for Gypsy/Traveller rights. With strong voices such as the late Sheila Stewart MBE, and the author Jess Smith, many young women are standing on the shoulders of the previous generations and challenging inequalities facing their communities.

On intersectionality, we hear the lived experience of Kathleen, Margaret and Ann, as well as how they think social work can play a more effective role.

Kathleen

My name is Kathleen, I’m a 26 year-old Scottish Traveller. Growing up as a Scottish Traveller woman I faced a lot of peer-pressure. I was expected to clean and to get married young – if I didn’t I was ‘on the shelf’. There’s pressure because if that relationship doesn’t work in any kinda way, there can be backlash from that. I’ve tried to raise awareness of this in the past, basically just begging young lassies not to run away too young (‘running-away’ is a Scottish Traveller expression used for ‘getting married’).

An’ when it comes to getting married (I don’t have this problem because I have a wean already), but lots of people can be like, ‘you have to have this massive family’. But, as a woman every woman’s different. An’ infertility can hit you in different ways and some people can be really insensitive about that. So, whether it’s you don’t want a wean because you want to focus on yourself or focus on your marriage, everyone is still in your ear like ‘when you having another wean?’

I just think this needs to be spoken about, that it’s okay for a marriage to kinda end and for you not to get the backlash, because at the end of the day I was only 15 when I ran away. An’ I willnae be the only one who’s had a failed marriage.

I think it (tradition) can be quite self-destructive, it’s like you do feel like you’re rebelling… like I can’t remember the last time I stepped foot in a site because of like the way I live.

I feel there isn’t a lot of understanding for who Travellers actually are and how we live. I think we need better communication rather than just stereotypes constantly, because that never ever seems to change. One example, when I was working in a pub there was a man and he kept speaking about ‘pikeys’ and I said you can’t use that word because it’s a derogatory term. But he said; ‘no pikeys are the bad ones who steal, and Travellers are the good ones…’ and I was like no it isnae!

Anyone I’ve spoken to about Traveller women – the main stereotype is that ‘they don’t really have a life’, or that ‘they’re just behind the man’, an’ ‘the women’s got loads of weans, probably shoplifting’.

An’ I think when it comes to the media portrayal of Traveller women they’ll either show some woman, probably about 25 with three weans stressed oot, sitting in a trailer, or they’ll show this wee skinny 16 year old away trying to get married. An’ it’s no accurate because everybody’s different.

When it comes to Big Fat Gypsy Weddings all they make oot is that women just want tae have nice dresses and have loads of fake tan an’ just be completely body and image conscious. But, in reality, there’s so many young Traveller lassies nowadays going away from getting married young and you see it a lot more that lassies are focusing on their education and getting themselves jobs. An’ that’s a really good thing, they’re actually doing something for themselves.

Often in society women are seen as not workers due to being women. Well, when I was with my last partner I would go out to work with him, and believe you me I could hawk a door (‘hawk’ is a Gypsy/Traveller expression for ‘looking for work’). But one time when we were doing a job, I went to get paid - it was meant to be a three-way split between me, him and his step-brother, but my ex gave the other man more of his own money, to make it look like I got a dosser’s wage (‘dosser’ is a Gypsy/Traveller expression for ‘low-skilled labourer’) because I was a woman. It’s wee stupid things like that.

As a mother I feel I’m respected by both communities. Everyone I know kinda knows I’ve got a wean. It’s never been something that’s made me feel bad or anything. Whilst I know some of my choices would be frowned upon, not once has anyone said anything about my parenting.

But when it comes to the settled community and social work, they werenae very happy about the whole Traveller lifestyle and that’s why I had to be in a hoose for so long. Before my daughter’s second birthday there was a domestic violence incident against me, it was kinda serious as it involved a knife and that. But, I got back wie him and it was basically seen as a risk factor – the fact that we were nowhere to be seen because we were out in a trailer (caravan).

An’ it said on my social work reports that there was a nationwide health alert because my daughter hadn’t had her immunisations because we were out in a camp. So basically that got put on, and me and my daughter got reported as missing persons in the UK. I know I’m not the only Gypsy/Traveller that this happened to because of being shifted oot (on the road).

But even when my ex was completely out of the picture it was still seen as a risk factor that my daughter had moved house three times. Because I was ‘unsettling’ her, I don’t even think the fact I was a Traveller was taken into consideration [by social work].

I feel like social work have a specific way of doing things, an’ if your no in a hoose, wie yer wean going to one school for seven years and then going to the connecting highschool, like that way when they have those milestones in the ‘perfect life’. Where you’re supposed to get a job, have a wean, have a hoose and probably sit wie yer 25-year mortgage – like I feel social work follows that guideline.

There’s nothing at all in it that states for if yer oot in a trailer, it’s if you’ve booked a two-week holiday in the easter break – that’s when you take your weans to Craig Tarra and that’s when they see a caravan. There’s nothing at all, like I got treated like I was a countrywoman (non-Traveller woman), so I had to kinda play that part.

There’s nothing at all in it that states for if yer oot in a trailer, it’s if you’ve booked a two week holiday in the easter break – that’s when you take your weans to craig tarra and that’s when they see a caravan. There’s nothing at all, like I got treated like I was a countrywoman, so I had to kinda play that part.

I had to basically stay in the same area for ages, it was really stressful at the time because I wanted out of the area my ex was in and I wasnae allowed to because that’s where the social work was. It was frowned on that I wanted to move, an’ I didn’t want any backlash against me, so I had to stay in the same bit.

I wanted out of the area he was in and I wasnae allowed to because that’s where the social work was. It was frowned on that I wanted to move, an’ I didn’t want any backlash against me, so I had to stay in the same bit.

That’s probably why I’ve never moved back oot to be honest, like I had to be there for like two year and had to keep going to panel meetings. Until they could determine that there was no risk and that I wisnae going to get back with my ex.

I also don’t feel like social work understand the pressure that can be put on you to stay in a relationship, and that’s why you tell them everything’s fine when it’s no. An’ I know that there’s more than one example of Traveller women losing their weans because they’ve took him back, because I don’t think they [social work] understand how hard it is to get oot of that situation. Like physically when you’re in it, an then mentally because of everything you know you’ll get when you leave. An’ it’s not just from him – it’s from your entire community.

My personal social worker was really nice. She helped us get essentials when we moved, but she was also the one who wrote the bad bits in the report. She still determined our lifestyle as a risk factor. It’s a 50/50 situation, like where they done really good, they also seen certain wee things that I did as risks.

I feel like as much as I’m for a vaccination, I got forced into doing that to tick a box wie them [social work] because they seen it as a risk factor.

Like I understand me being oot in a camp when my daughter was young, missing her immunisations wasn’t good, but as much as I’m for a vaccination, I got forced into doing that to tick a box wie them [social work] because they seen it as a risk factor.

If a settled person walked into a camp, they’d see weans playing outside – they often look to them like ‘I don’t understand this way of life’ - having no regard for ‘what is right’ in their [social workers] eyes.

…when you’re in a camp you have the support of the camp and all your family around about you. But when you’re in a hoose your kinda isolated.

Like they don’t understand the freedom, the closeness of those you stay close to because when you’re in a camp you have the support of the camp and all your family around about you. But when you’re in a hoose your kinda isolated.

I feel social work assumes our needs, for example, I must’ve been like 14 and my mammy left my step-daddy an’ we were in the Womens Aid. I ended up going to college in the town there, but before they would put me into a school they got me a tutor because I came from a site. Which granted at the time I was happy about, but now that I’m thinking about it doesn’t sit right with me – it feels exclusionary.

I think social work can build trust with Gypsy/Travellers by just understanding that there isnae one set book of rules for every child, like you know how they all follow that getting it right for every child thing? No every child is the same, like you need to alter social work to suit a Traveller lifestyle as well as settled. Like if they don’t have an education but they have supportive parents, then get them that education. Look how quick the entire country could switch to ‘right we’re doing it online because of the pandemic’ – why was this not already available for Travellers?

Also, when there’s a case of domestic abuse, social work need to be more supportive of the victim. Like no just, ‘if you canny stay away from this man we’re gonna take your weins away’. It isnae as simple as that but sadly there are Travellers who’ve lost their bairns (children) because of this.

…you’re in charge of the choices, you can control your life and you can be yourself not just a wife.

My hopes for my daughter is that she understands you shouldn’t ever be pressured into an early marriage, because as much as people don’t want to talk about it you don’t know everything at 16. The pressures are far too high to be perfect. It’s important for young women to know that it’s okay for them to make a mistake and that it doesnae define their lives. You’re in charge of the choices, you can control your life and you can be yourself not just a wife.

Margaret

I’m Margaret, a 27 year-old Scottish Traveller. Growing up in Scotland I faced a lot of educational and accomodation inequalities. Like when we a’ went tae school, we’d all go to school in clusters oh Travellers. So, it would be me and my cousins and we’d go to the same school as other extended family. An’ because everyone knew we were Travellers we’d all get picked on as a cluster. So, we ended up not going to school that much, we would get pulled out at the first, ‘oh, Gypsies, Pikeys’ an my family would be like it’s no worth going if you’re getting attacked.

You wouldn’t be on a camp a day or two, before the polis (Police) would come down and tell you you’ve got to move. So you could never settle in one place.

As far as accommodation, anytime we’d shift (‘shifting’ is a Scottish Traveller term for ‘going on the road’) we’d get chased. You wouldn’t be on a camp a day or two before the polis (Police) would come down and tell you you’ve got to move. So, you could never settle in one place.

I really don’t feel our culture and community is understood. Like I’ve had one experience a lot – like when I was with my friend his family would be like, ‘oh the Gypsies down there’, an’ I’d be like no, that’s Showfolk, that’s no Travellers – that’s no my folk. An’ ye dinnae say Gypsy because I find that offensive. But every single time, even though I explained it they’d still say ‘oh I saw the Gypsies doon there’. I’d be like it’s no, but it’s people mansplaining 1 your own culture back to you when they know nothing about it – if that makes sense?

…people mansplaining your own culture back to you when they know nothing about it.

As a young Traveller woman it is difficult. It’s all the standards you’ve got tae hold up tae – the way you’ve got to compose yourself to the point where you have tae pretend to be certain ways in front of somebody, and to withhold a persona of yourself and your family. I know me personally, when I’m around my family I change my whole way of being, like I take piercings oot, I change the way I dress, I’m like Hannah Montana when I go see my family!

You’ve got to be, look and act a certain way or you’ll get judged and spoken about – you’ll get treated as an outsider. An’ you’ll never live that down because orally they’ll speak about it mair and mair, it never stops, it never goes away. So, you have to pretend to be that your whole life in order to have a happy life. I feel it’s very 1950’s, the woman cooks and cleans and the man works.

But I feel I broke the mould; my family feel like that too. They often say to me ‘I dunno what happened to you – you’re no like your cousin’. Cause we grew up the same, but she’s like this very traditional Traveller girl, and I’m covered in piercings, tattoos and don’t act the same way. Growing up I was the only kinda ‘alternative’ lassie, and I used to get slaughtered for it wherever I went. Like in church lassies would speak about me, and it got to the point where the pastor had to go and speak to their parents for me.

An’ the lassie will never live it down, even if she gets married, because people will say ‘oh that lassie wisnae clean’, ‘she’s no clean’.

That said, the key pressure for young Traveller women growing up is the fear of being ‘made a fool oh’. My family know that I was made a fool oh. What that means is that a Traveller laddie I was going oot wie tricked me into doing things wie him. Then he went and told Travellers who then told more and I got spoke about for it. I was called a prostitute and dirty, even though I was a virgin at the time; I was tricked into sleeping with someone. The laddie gets away with it, but the lassie gets a name after being made a fool oh. An’ the lassie will never live it down, even if she gets married, because people will say ‘oh that lassie wisnae clean’, ‘she’s no clean’.

But in my experience countryfolk (‘countryfolk’ is a Gypsy/Traveller term for Settled people), dinnae seem to know the seriousness of being clean and respectful of your body in our culture, they just seem to think that ‘aw but, accidents happen – that doesn’t make you bad or wrong in any way’. That gave me a different perspective to think about myself as I’m not ‘damaged goods’ or ‘a prostitute’, for letting someone make a fool of me, it’s actually their fault. An’ that took me seven years to figure oot, because the culture can be so toxic in certain ways. I feel like countryfolk have a completely different understanding of what’s respectful and whats no, and what should be classed as shameful and what isnae.

However, there are still stereotypes about Traveller women, I feel that media is a bit put on because it’s scripted for TV. Some of the things if you come from the community you can see the realness behind it, but only if you know the community. But if you don’t, we can come across uneducated and thick, and that women are only there for one thing. But some women can be really strong minded and be the ones who rule their husbands, but they [media] won’t show that – they’ll only show more misogyny and whatever they think is going to sell. The portrayal of women is damaging because not every family is the same. There will be women out there who do everything for their husbands, but then there’s other Traveller women who’ll have their husbands do everything for them. No’ everyone is the same.

Stereotypes affect everybody. When you meet people outside the community it’s the kinda thing where you try to educate the folk, whether or no’ they want to listen to you or not though is a different story.

That said, I did meet someone who took the time to listen and learn about our community. I had a social worker growing up. I got taken off my mammy when I was six or seven cause she was bad wie drink and drugs. So, we had this panel thing and I was assigned a social worker. An’ my family, they talk about it all the time, they were terrified I was gonna be put in a home because of the way social workers were in the past and the way they always were.

…she was always on our side and was always kind an’ understanding, she took the time to ask about the community and get the ins and outs of stuff before she would report back.

But, thankfully for us we got a good woman, she was so kind to me. Whenever she would come to the camp she would bring me sweeties, she was a genuinely kind woman. An’ my experience with social work was a good one thankfully. She was always on our side and was always kind an’ understanding, she took the time to ask about the community and get the ins and outs of stuff before she would report back. An’ she would discuss it and explain it when we maybe didn’t understand certain things. She took the time to understand and wouldn’t just jump to a conclusion. She wanted the best for me. I know some people have horror stories, but my experience was a good one.

I think social work should do this more, find a way tae get a wee bit more education by learning or observing Travellers – take more time and effort to learn the culture and the cultural ways, an’ things to say or no’ say. There’s still a lot of misunderstanding of our culture. If they’re not educated then there’s gonna be this push and pull because they’ll be like, but this works for countryfolk. But Travellers will be like, but this doesnae work for Travellers though. An’ because they’re [social workers] only used to countryfolks ways, that they can just see the rights of that, an’ they canny see how this would affect Travellers and Traveller’s ways.

An’ because they’re [social workers] only used to countryfolks ways, that they can just see the rights of that, an’ they canny see how this would affect Trevellers…

Being more aware of how they [social work] speak, for example, Traveller lassies – especially unmarried ones - can be really shamed having certain conversations or talking about certain things. An’ that needs to be respected because it can be traumatising for somebody who was raised in a household where they don’t make it the norm, because aye some Travellers dae speak about things and some don’t. They need to understand that particular family or lassie’s ways, before coming out with something, because no every two folk’s the same person even if they have the same culture.

In the end I know it’s a very traditional culture, but my hope is that in future they [Travellers] won’t always put the blame on the lassie if an accident happens. If a lassie is made a fool of and manipulated into doing things, it takes two to tango and the man should have just as much blame, if not most of it for manipulating. That’s what I want to progress in my culture – that lassies shouldn’t be shamed for doing anything.

Ann

My name is Ann, I’m a 23 year-old Scottish Traveller. Growing up a Traveller you’re made to feel different. At school I got bullied for being a Traveller, for the way I spoke, because I was the only Traveller there at the time – well me and my brother but he never showed he was a Traveller. So, I got bullied for how long my hair was an’ stuff, for the way I spoke and the way I dressed. An’ they knew who my parents were so when they saw them in the street I’d get mocked at school.

I got bullied for how long my hair was an’ stuff, for the way I spoke and the way I dressed.

An’ I knew that some of the teachers were against Travellers because of the way they spoke down to us. You could just blatantly tell that they had no interest in us, and when my cousins joined the school, we had an author come in – Jess Smith – for awareness. An’ she gave her three books into the library for everyone to read. An’ I can still remember, we were in a big meeting with all the headteachers, an’ you could tell the ones who were cheeky and that before were trying to be nice now, because there were so many other folk from Jess Smith’s kinda side. They had to put a show on. But they went back to the same as soon as they left.

An’ we asked them why? An’ they said that they’d had problems with Travellers before…

It wasn’t just at school though, me and my cousins and some of my friends from the site used to go to McDonalds. I remember we were sitting chatting but people kept looking at us dirtily and making remarks. Then I remember the McDonald’s worker came up to us about 20 minutes later. She was like ‘you have to keep the noise down’, but we were like what do you mean? But we stayed quiet and were eating our dinner. Then she came up to us like 15 minutes later and they asked some of the boys to leave because ‘they were already barred from McDonalds’. An’ we asked them why? An’ they said that they’d had problems with Travellers before. And that’s when we all just went we’re just young, but they made a scene so we had to take our food and leave. The supervisor walked us out the door. We hadn’t done anything but I felt like folk were just digging at us and you could see people talking about us. Because Travellers do stand out, the way we talk and the way we dress an’ stuff. That was the biggest thing I faced, being judged. But we never went as a group again, we would go in twos and tried to hide when we went in.

I think the media has ruined the perspective of the way Traveller women are. Since the programmes like Big Fat Gypsy Weddings and Gypsy Brides USA, there’s an image that’s been painted for the way Traveller women should be, and that’s the image folk get in their heads when they meet a Traveller woman. They think of them being all fake tanned, an’ the way they dress, how they’re supposed to get married at 16 an that.

Especially Big Fat Gypsy Weddings, I’ve never met a Traveller like that in my life.

I feel like the media is brainwashing society and making us have a bad name. So, it’s hard growing up because folk expect so much, ‘oh why are you outside, is your dad actually letting you outside?’, ‘oh why you at school?, I thought you’re supposed to leave school at 12?’. An’ that’s all that folk’ll think about, an it’ll get passed down and passed down that that’s all a Traveller’s supposed to be. An’ it shouldnae be like that, because maybe one in five folk Travellers are like that, but the rest of them are nothing like the way the media have painted. Especially Big Fat Gypsy Weddings, I’ve never met a Traveller like that in my life. It’s hard with young Traveller lassies growing up watching that as well. They think they need to have a man and the first boyfriend they get is who they’re marrying.

Girls are being so drawn to how they look these days because of how folk have judged them. If you’re not skinny enough you get classed as ugly, if you’re fat you get classed as ugly, if you have spots or have short hair you’re classed as ugly.

Each Traveller girl looks to the next to see if they’ve got bigger and better. They always try to out-do the person next to them. I feel like they’ve been brainwashed to have everything bigger an’ better, or to be the ‘cleanest’ and ‘purest’ person, or to have the highest morals. Girls are being so drawn to how they look these days because of how folk have judged them. If you’re not skinny enough you get classed as ugly, if you’re fat you get classed as ugly, if you have spots or have short hair you’re classed as ugly. So, there’s been this image painted for Traveller women these days, yous have to look like this, yous have to be like that and you have to sound like this. An’ I genuinely just want it to disappear, because so many women are killing themselves because they’re no’ living up to the image they ‘need’ to be.

You’re a wee Traveller girl – why are you joining the cadets – that’s a man’s thing?

When I was younger, I got questioned upside down. Like, ‘you’re a Traveller woman though’, ‘You’re a wee Traveller girl – why are you joining the cadets – that’s a man’s thing?’. I got so much hate, well no’ hate, negative comments when I went to the college to do painting – ‘that’s a man’s job’, ‘you shouldnae be working – especially wie paint’. An’ because I’m working wie other men now like from the settled community, I get looked on that ‘oh, she’s dirty’, she’s this and she’s that because I’m working with other folk. Nothing malicious. I go to work, I get my money and I come back at the end of the day. I don’t go there to like flirt with every man going, it’s not the way I am.

But, I feel like within my own community Traveller girls are like ‘you’ve got to be married and stick to one man’. I’ve had a few boyfriends growing up. Some of them didn’t work and now I’ve got the one I’ve got now, and he’s treated me the best. I feel like I get judged off other Traveller girls because I’ve had more than one boyfriend. Sometimes things don’t work out – but Travellers can be very ‘stick to one thing’. I feel like I get treated differently and judged. When I was younger I used to go down to the site in my [highschool] uniform and folk would be like ‘why’s that countrygirl here?’ ‘who’s that?’. Cause some of the Travellers who moved on didn’t know who I was, and because I went to school I got treated differently.

An’ when I went to cadets, to start off wie I got the ‘oh you’re a Traveller, why are you doing this kinda thing?’ Then I got the stereotypical questions like ‘oh, you’re a Traveller you should be married by now’ – cause I joined the cadets when I was about 15. I laughed it off and used to just answer what I could. After that they moved on and I was just accepted. It was just that first couple of months where they were all about it and stuff. An’ they used to just question me because it was the height of news. But I’m getting more appreciated now, like folk are more respecting me because I’m starting to open up.

But, growing up I didn’t know anyone who did [break the mould]. I mean when I was younger my mum would do a lot of decorating and she could build fences and things – do the typical stuff that a Traveller woman wouldn’t do now. Like she was good for herself – she knew how to look after herself, and how to get money and make money without a man. So, I grew up watching my mum do that. But when I left school I was always a tom-boy, and I would always watch my uncles and sometimes I would help my uncles.

When I joined college I did construction first because I was really good. I’m good with my hands – good at building stuff. An’ at first I wanted to be a joiner, but I kept hitting my thumb. The real reason I didn’t do it was cause I kept hitting my thumb and it was sore! But you did different things at college and painting was one of my favourites. I was really good at drawing when I was younger and I thought it could tie in wie that. So, I started doing painting and I got a lot better at it and I started making money from it, so I stuck at it. An’ I wasnae heedin what folk were saying. At the time I was getting more money than anyone I knew – I felt good about myself and that’s what kept me going on.

…within the construction industry it’s so hard for a woman, just a woman in general to get a job. I’ve been knocked back from so many companies, and a few of them have said ‘we’re no taking on women’.

But within the construction industry it’s so hard for a woman, just a woman in general to get a job. I’ve been knocked back from so many companies, and a few of them have said ‘we’re no taking on women’. An’ I was so angry an’ I said ‘how can you no’ take on women?’ Women are more patient, when it comes to painting women are more patient. But yeah, a few folk have said that women don’t get anywhere in life doing painting – it’s always guys. So that’s kinda hard. But, as a Traveller woman I’ve just been getting the same questions, ‘you’re no’ a Traveller woman – I’ve seen what Traveller women are like, I’ve dealt wie them’. Everyone has always ‘dealt’ wie them! No you’ve no’.

In some situations, countryfolk do take the time to understand and they do listen to what our needs are and the way of our life. But then you’ve always got the ignorant side to society, where folk just judge you from the media and what you hear. In terms of social work, I’ve not had to deal with social work. My cousins had to deal with them once when they were younger because they got bullied and they never went to school. But they moved a lot because of a trailer fire. But I don’t know what kind of social work it was, it was just a guy who came out.

But, I feel like because the media paint that Traveller children are ‘dirty’ and ‘they don’t get looked after’, because when Travellers get moved onto a camp – they roam, they play outside. An’ the settled community look down on that like they’re [Traveller children] no’ being cared for; cause some of these kids will go out in shorts and a t-shirt because that’s fine to them, they don’t feel cold in the same way as settled folk. But the settled community look at that as ‘they don’t get dressed properly’, ‘they don’t get fed properly’.

I feel like the settled community don’t [realise] we get brought up rougher, we get the old cultural ways, round a fire, brought up differently and settled people think that’s dirty. So, when they call social work to say we’re getting neglected, it’s totally misunderstood. They don’t actually see that the kids are getting fed and they are happy – they just look at it from far away.

I feel like the settled community don’t (realise) we get brought up rougher, we get the old cultural ways, round a fire, brought up differently and settled people think that’s dirty. So, when they call social work to say we’re getting neglected, it’s totally misunderstood.

Social work will believe the settled community before they believe the Travellers. When they [social work] go down they expect to see horrible things, like the kids will have three eyes and will be black as coal! Some social workers try to help, they really do, but then you get the guffy ones [bad ones] who take the kids away from their families.

I feel like they should go down to the sites and the houses. Make days out to check on the families and get to know them – open up. They should try to understand the Traveller culture, how we’re brought up because I bet you a social worker has never seen a Traveller woman feed their kid meat from a pot, from a fire. Social workers should see that, actually start listening, with an open mind, the way we’re brought up and the way they’re [social workers] brought up.

I bet you a social worker has never seen a Traveller woman feed their kid meat from a pot, from a fire. Social workers should see that…

More communication - get to know the families – phone them once a month or something. But, make sure they [Travellers] know they aren’t doing it for a bad reason. Most Traveller women think that when they’re [social workers] coming it’s to take away their kids, it’s for bad stuff. I’ve never known a social worker just to come to see the family are okay. This would mean Travellers could get an awareness of what social work is and how it works – more awareness from both sides.

LGBTQI+ Identity

Like all communities there are Gypsy/Travellers who self-define as part of the LGBTQI+ community. The voices of LGBTQI+ Gypsy/Travellers in Scotland have often been seldom heard, with many still uncomfortable with publicly identifying as LGBTQI+ due to fears of discrimination and prejudice – both from outside and inside their communities.

LGBTQI+ Gypsy/Travellers have also fought hard for recognition within the LGBTQI+ Movement, only recently establishing the first ‘Traveller LGBT Pride’ section of London Pride in 2019. We hear James and Steven’ lived experience and their thoughts on the role of social work.

James

My name is James, I’m 23 and an Irish Traveller – oh and I’m a proud gay man! Growing up I faced a lot of discrimination for being a Traveller, you know like in primary school and all the rest of it, you’d get people saying - ‘Oh, he’s a Gypsy’ – this, that and the other. Not having much understanding of the culture.

…like now I get away with that ‘country-privilege’ – I look like a countryperson so I don’t face that discrimination as much anymore.

But I think when I grew up a bit and started living in a settled house, a lot of that discrimination I don’t really face it as much as I used to. You know like now I get away with that ‘country-privilege’ – I look like a countryperson (Traveller word for a Settled person) so I don’t face that discrimination as much anymore.

I could go out myself for example. I could go to a pub with a group of people from the gay community and no one would bat an eyelid at me. But, if I went out to a pub, say with my family, then that’s when you see the discrimination. You’d see a lot of people trying to refuse you service and things like that, so I do get away with it when I’m with the ‘other side’ of my community.

There’s a lot of discrimination even within the gay community towards Travellers, like when I tell a lot of people, they’ll usually have the response, ‘ew, do you live in a caravan?’ or ‘oh you’re a Traveller but not the pikey kind’ – they’ll always say discriminatory things, thinking they’re giving me compliments but really it’s backhanded insults.

However, there is a lot of stereotypes about gay people, like a lot of people thought I was going to become extremely feminine, when I came out as gay or change my voice – none of which happened. I was just the exact same person I was before. But I think there is a lot more negative stereotypes towards the Traveller community from the gay community – they’re like ‘oh, do you live in a caravan?’ – a lot of like nosey questions, whereas I didn’t get those questions from the Traveller community about my sexuality.

Coming out for Travellers can obviously be a daunting experience. It can affect their mental health – things like anxiety and depression. I know because it’s happened to myself over coming out. Also, there’s been a lot of young Traveller people that when they’ve come out their families have rejected them and they’ve been made homeless.

…thinking I’m either going to come out as gay or get married to a woman and just fit the normal lifestyle of a Traveller.

That’s a scary experience for Travellers because you don’t want to come out and be pushed out by the entire community. That is a terrifying experience. That was my biggest thing for me when I was younger, thinking I’m either going to come out as gay or get married to a woman and just fit the normal lifestyle of a Traveller.

…there’s been a lot of young Traveller people that when they’ve come out their families have rejected them and they’ve been made homeless…

I was working my job one day before I came out as gay and I was thinking in my head what am I going to do, what am I going to do, and I eventually just sent a massive text message to my mother about being gay and didn’t come home for two days. An’ then when I did come home, they were all very accepting of it, so thankfully I did have it a lot easier than a lot of LGBT Travellers.

So, I haven’t actually faced a lot of homophobia in my own family, but obviously like further out, like cousins and all that, you do face the normal homophobic things. Like getting called things like ‘nancy boy’, or [for] doing things that are a bit more feminine. Because there’s a lot of toxic masculinity in the Traveller community. So, for me, I was always not like the ‘traditional Traveller man’, like I was always different growing up. My family probably had an awareness that I was probably going to be gay because I was a lot more feminine, a lot more than my brother would be for example.

…getting called things like ‘nancy boy’…Because there’s a lot of toxic masculinity in the Traveller community…

I didn’t face a lot of homophobia when I came out. I faced a lot more of it before I came out, because everyone would say ‘oh, he’s a Nancy boy’, ‘he’s a queer’ – this, that and the other.

I didn’t accept myself – but then when I accepted myself I didn’t really face a lot of homophobia anymore. Like from my own family, but like cousins and that – yeah I still do unfortunately.

I don’t think the older generation [of Gypsy/Travellers] have a good understanding of LGBT identity. The older people hid things away about people and kept it all a secret and didn’t talk about it. Whereas, now the younger community are a lot more accepting than the older generation. They’ve been brought up around it a lot more, they’ve seen it on television now about gay people, even on RuPaul’s Drag Race – we had a Romany Gypsy drag queen on the show this year. It was really interesting to see that kind of representation on TV, instead of the negative shows like ‘My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding’.

So, they [young Travellers] know all about it now and they’re becoming a lot more accepting. But for the elders I don’t think so – a lot of them are stuck in their ways.

I do feel I get treated differently because I’m an LGBT Traveller, like a lot of your old male friends before you came out as gay, they don’t really want to be associated with you as much anymore. Because they don’t want to be labelled as gay or ‘tarnished’ or anything like that. So, you do lose a lot of your old male relationships, like friendships, that you’ve had before.

Then, like with the gay community when they find out that you’re a Traveller they like judge you differently, you get a bit of a weird vibe from them, like you’re not treated the same as you were before.

…people automatically assume that I’m a countryperson because I live in a house…

Like, obviously people automatically assume that I’m a countryperson because I live in a house. So then when they do find out I’m a Traveller, I can see the difference in how they treated you once before and how they’re treating you now. It’s not like big things, its micro-aggressive things – they’re saying things about your culture and your ethnicity. Stupid things like ‘oh do ya wanna buy a dawg’ things like that. I’m so sick of hearing the same jokes about Travellers.

When people learn about me being a Traveller, they have an awful amount of questions about the culture, which I don’t mind answering as long as they’re not offensive. A lot of questions are stupid, like you get asked ‘do Travellers pay taxes?’ and things like that. You get asked really insulting questions, but I think a lot of countryfolk think that these types of questions are normal to ask Travellers, but they’re not, they’re actually hurtful questions to ask Travellers.

But I think other communities don’t understand what you should ask a Traveller – what’s offensive and what’s not. Before they come to me asking questions, they should be doing their own research on what is and what isn’t offensive to ask Travellers.

I think these stereotypes are supported by the horrible media representation of Travellers. If I go through Facebook or Twitter or any social media and anything pops up about Travellers, there’s always horrible comments. Like even during COVID there’s been countrypeople who’ve had funerals with people attending, but then you have a Traveller funeral and it’s all over the media as ‘oh, Travellers attend funeral’. It’s just disgusting to see what people can say about people in the lowest of moments. It’s horrible. Especially them articles, ‘illegal encampments’ this, that and the other. But then the councils aren’t providing anywhere for these people to stay in the first place, so what do you want them to do?

In relation to social work, there is a mistrust of social workers within the community, like I haven’t had much experience with social work myself but having followed some of these organisations and stories.

…there’s a fear that a lot of social workers are discriminatory and want to take their children.

I have heard a lot of Travellers, women specifically, say they don’t trust social work because there’s a fear that a lot of social workers are discriminatory and want to take their children. I have heard them stories. But me myself, you know I don’t have any children but I do know there are negative perceptions of social work within the community.

To improve trust, I think they’ve gotta engage with the community more and show that they’re not there to take their children away, but to support and help them. I think Travellers, you need to get in with us. If there’s no trust there to begin with I think it’s not going to be a walk in the park and that social work has got a lot of work to be done there – probably for a fair few years.

With a lot of LGBT Travellers, especially before coming out, they don’t even discuss it [LGBT Identity] with their close friends and family – never mind discuss it with a social worker they don’t even know.

I think if they [social work] could make some kind of accessible leaflet with some information on it, not just about LGBT communities but with some other things on it as well – like as a cover-up…

I think if they [social work] could make some kind of accessible leaflet with some information on it, not just about LGBT communities but with some other things on it as well – like as a cover-up for the information on the pamphlet that would help. But I don’t think you’ll get many Travellers expressing their sexuality to social workers without coming out to their own family.

That said, there’s a lot more support nowadays. When I was younger there wasn’t a lot of information out there on LGBT Travellers. Nowadays we’ve got comedians, like Martin Beanz Ward, whose publicly gay. We’ve got Traveller Pride organisations, that’s there to support Travellers.

So, from a simple Facebook search, people questioning their sexuality and gender could go onto that and find some really good information, people to contact and what not. There’s also a lot more news articles, interviews and TV shows. So, there’s a lot of knowledge out there for people questioning their sexuality and gender. They can literally do a few Google searches about LGBT Travellers, and nowadays a lot more information will pop up. So, I think that will be helpful to the younger generation.

Homophobia is definitely a barrier and it’s why a lot of people won’t come out. I know people that’s gone on to get married and hiding their true identity. If they don’t want to come out that’s their own choice, but I think in the next 10 years that’ll change with the younger generation.

My family is Catholic and I still attend the church for certain things like christenings and things like that. So Catholicism for me, even with my sexuality, is something that I couldn’t back away from. It’s still my religion today. I’m still Catholic and gay at the same time.

I also hope to be rid of the toxic masculinity within the Traveller community, because we’re no longer in the 50s!

I hope one day LGBT Travellers are able to be themselves without facing backlash from the community. I hope that being LGBT isn’t such a taboo subject and people aren’t intimidated about things like coming out to their friends and family. I also hope to be rid of the toxic masculinity within the Traveller community, because we’re no longer in the 50s!

Steven

My name is Steven, I’m a 16 year-old Scottish Traveller. I live in a house and growing up people didn’t ever know I was a Traveller, but I feel like if anyone at school knew I probably would’ve faced issues. You see, people ignore us as much as possible until something goes missing and then it’s ‘oh the Gypsies did it’.

It was harder for me growing up, knowing I was gay. I knew that judgement is a pressure faced by young gay Travellers. We are often used as an example of what not to be. Like if I stayed on a camp or a site, I imagine people would be like ‘ugh, not that one’, so I haven’t come out yet.

I feel that I’d be treated differently because I’m a gay, but I suppose I’d expect to be treated differently, like I’d be treated differently because I am different. I believe that homophobia can be a barrier for young Travellers and that it’s accepted as ‘just the way it is’.

I know Travellers who’ve had experience with social work and know that often there is a perception that Travellers are not able to look after their children because they don’t have a ‘stable’ home, or that they aren’t in school and it’s seen as a bad thing to social work.

I think social work can build trust with the Gypsy/Traveller community by better understanding that our culture is a way of life and not neglect. My hope for the future is that LGBT+ Gypsy/Travellers are just normalised.

Footnotes

1 ‘the explanation of something by a man, typically to a woman, in a manner regarded as condescending or patronizing.’ (Oxford Languages)